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Journalist Eva Merkacheva biography personal life. Human rights activist Eva Merkacheva: The case of Kokorin and Mamaev is extraordinary. Eva Merkacheva: biography of a man in a dangerous profession

The 27-year-old widow of the murdered Ivankov, Nicole, told MK about how bandits negotiate with politicians

Three years have passed since the Russian mafia legend Yaponchik (Vyacheslav Ivankov) was killed. Neither the killer nor the customer were ever found, and the investigation was officially suspended. The widow of the patriarch of the underworld, Nicole, made him remember him. Yaponchik's last love, the mother of his 4-year-old son Zhora, recently appeared in crime reports. As MK has already written, operatives released an audio recording of Nicole’s negotiations with one of the Rostov deputies. The widow, in exchange for financial support for the party from companies owned by thieves in law, offered to unite against the local police. After this, Nicole was rumored to be forced to leave the country. And they immediately started talking about the fact that the widow decided to continue Jap’s work and even take his place.
The crime princess, after much persuasion, agreed to give a frank interview to the MK special correspondent. Much of what Nicole says is surprising, jarring, and even frightening. However, it’s up to you, readers, to draw your own conclusions.
"Slava was not a beast"
Fragile, petite, more like a teenage girl. Never in my life would I have thought that this was one of the influential women in the criminal world. He speaks almost in a whisper. She has this from birth, and at first it’s not easy to get used to - you have to listen. But then the whispering voice is so mesmerizing, almost hypnotizing, that you stop hearing everything around you. Only he remains.
“I was born into such a... difficult family,” Nicole begins, “I was raised in concepts from childhood. But I didn’t call the pistol a “volynoy” - such a vocabulary was not encouraged in our country. And my parents didn’t push me to do what I’m doing now. It was probably the call of blood.
- Ivankov knew you since childhood?
- My father was a very authoritative person, and Slava often communicated with him. Although their relationship was not easy, and it could not be called a serene friendship. Of course, I didn’t sit on his lap with rattles. Naturally, for the time being, he perceived me as a child from a family close to him. I remember very well the day when his attitude towards me changed dramatically. By that time, regardless of Slava (he was in prison in America and simply could not help me), I had already earned myself a reputation in certain circles as a person capable of tough decisions on complex issues. So she shared her achievements with Slava. He immediately looked at me with different eyes.
- So, did you immediately fall in love?
- No I do not think so. Serious feelings do not arise immediately. I was worried that we were both not free at that time. We didn’t want to traumatize anyone with our relationship, especially since he had a big and difficult life behind him.
By that time, the criminal world began to change. In previous years, everyone acted hastily and rudely. But now we have to work much more subtly. Slava was capable of any style. He was a very modern man.
-Have you always liked him?
- In my opinion, everyone liked him, except those to whom he made “demands.” And often they do too. He was very interesting person and taught me important things. I never taught in the literal sense of the word, I never said: “Do this.” He simply scanned any situation and made assessments. Sometimes he told stories from his life, and I myself drew conclusions. Slava himself did not burn out to be only a mentor. Moreover, everyone has their own personal style of work, which cannot be taught. I listened to his opinion. Wow, you bet. And without any, you know, youth protest. We were of the same blood, and this is the main thing that brings us together.
- What stories from his life did he tell you?
- I especially remember the story about the jewelry. Once, when they were dividing up the spoils, one authority hid a stolen diamond necklace, and Slava noticed it. According to him, it was incredibly beautiful and insanely expensive, but that’s not the point, of course. So, they sat down at the table, distributed the jewelry among themselves, and the authority quietly hid the necklace...
- How did the Coward hide a ten-ruble note in “Prisoner of the Caucasus”?
- Approximately. And then Slava took out that very necklace from him. And then, without a word, he took a pillow and a gun, put it to his head and fired!
- Hard to believe. You talk about this so calmly... Has no one mentioned this crime?
- Vice versa. Everyone was outraged: how is it that one respected person kills another respected person in front of everyone?
- And how did he explain such cruelty?
- Aggression. Justice. You can't steal from your own people. You can't - that's all. The man who stole it knew the rules as well as Slava. And Slava, in principle, did everything right, but the person still had to be judged for his action. And he himself single-handedly pronounced the verdict. I think he regretted this action. And not only because after this story he had a lot of troubles in his life. He wasn't some kind of beast.
(After a pause.) And I’m still extremely interested: what did this necklace look like?..
- You say you weren’t a beast? But, as the legend says, he threw people out of a helicopter!
- He talked about it. He himself said that this is a way to die beautifully... But he never did this to ordinary people. And he didn't eliminate the cops. Every time he showed aggression towards someone, it could be explained. And you can’t do without this in the criminal world - otherwise you won’t hold your position.
- Nicole, aren’t you afraid that after this conversation you’ll be attracted to someone? For example, for concealing crimes? In fact, you just talked about a murder that the police hardly know about...
- Problems arise not because of articles, but because of actions. The police, as it turned out, are closely monitoring my actions. This is the downside of my profession. You need to be prepared for it if you want to rise high.
“Pride brings people to us”
- How did your parents react to the fact that you became close to Ivankov? He's so many years older...
-We didn’t even discuss this topic. I began to live my own life early, and my parents quickly realized that I was not in danger of being raped by an evil guy at a disco, because I never went to such places. By the way, I became financially independent early.
- Do you have your own business? This doesn't seem to be the case.
- No, and never happened. And you are right - this is not according to concepts. I stick to the old rule: less money, more weight. Let's put it this way: I help people negotiate. Those who come to me have a clear idea of ​​my personality and what issues I solve. You can’t just get to us from the street.
- So, are intermediary services relevant today?
- You can’t even imagine how much. For example, you want to expand your not entirely legal business and go to the regions. There, naturally, you immediately have competitors from local organized crime groups who are not very happy about your appearance. And officials are also not going to miss their chance to make money on your criminal persona, although they are afraid. We need to come to an agreement. But you won’t come into your office and dump a wad of money on the table. Many people don’t know how to approach and offer. Or, sometimes, they do it so ineptly that they end up asking for help when they have completely ruined everything. Most often, pride gets in the way of people. I'm serious. They can’t help themselves, even just to call (especially if they are high-ranking). Why pride? From nearby, unfortunately.
- In principle, you can go into any office and come to an agreement?
- Personally, I always leave with what I came for. It’s funny to see how respectable adult guys, when they see me, take on an arrogant look and talk down to me. But it goes away instantly.
- And how do you manage to do this? Are there any “cherished” words? Or does the name of Jap decide everything?
- Sometimes you really have to name a couple of names so that people understand who they are dealing with and how to behave. Because sometimes saying, “Hello, I'm Nicole,” is the same as saying, “Hello, I'm from the North.” Do you know how many Severas? Whoever you take, everything is from the North, and even better - from Hassan. And it doesn't mean anything. And this way people immediately get a clear idea of ​​who I am and where I come from. I make sure that the names that come up mean a lot to them. And often no one asks me for money after that.
- So what are officials doing if not money?
“They hold on to their places, but even more to their personal safety.” And I wouldn’t advise anyone to quarrel with me and my friends. It’s better to be friends with us, and there is no shortage of people willing. Of course, the working style of people in my “profession” is Lately changed a lot. We no longer drive anyone through the forests and don’t force anyone to dig their own graves. It's no longer fashionable.
- How fashionable?
- Have your own doctor. I am generally for plastic surgery. For restoring a person’s damaged appearance if something bad happens to him. And then the one who behaved unworthily becomes not only better, but also more beautiful.
There were rumors for a while (and I admit, I really liked them) that I work with surgeons who reattach cut off fingers so meticulously that they move as before.
- This is true?
- I will not refute this. But it wouldn’t occur to you to check. What if it's true? Others think so too. Nobody wants to know whether my doctors are good or not, whether they will be able to sew everything back into place as it should.
- Wait... Do you really think that you have the moral right... to put it mildly... to cripple people?
- Well, to get it to your fingers, you need to try hard. Actually I'm very humane man. I love being friends with everyone. I very, very rarely speak harshly. I never even scold my housekeepers and nannies. They have no idea what I do.
-Have you ever picked up a weapon? Can you shoot?
- Those who live according to concepts are not allowed to do this.
“I liked Bessonov for his charisma”
- Was it your idea to go to Rostov?
- This is not an idea. There was work that needed to be done. Maybe you have an editorial assignment? So it is here. I had to meet and make friends with certain people to solve problems. If they were, for example, in Novosibirsk, I would go there. My people needed to gain a foothold in Rostov.
- Are there any difficulties with this?
- Well, for ordinary businessmen, of course, no, but for my friends, yes. With the arrival of the new team, the police began to work vigorously, so we decided to offer cooperation to local opposition deputies, who are also not doing well with them. Simple practice. Just a business proposal, nothing more. No one put pressure on anyone or threatened anyone. For some reason, everyone has a perverted concept of crime - the film “Brigade” and the like. But this is no longer relevant for a long time. These are the “authorities” who sentenced the chief of the Rostov police Chuprunov (I can guess in principle who he is) - have you heard how they reason? Thieves in law do not sentence police officers, this is not according to concepts. There were yesterday's punks who took on more than they could handle.
- But in a conversation with deputy Bessonov, you also discussed the removal of the head of the Rostov police Chuprunov.
- I repeat: I was raised in a family with traditional concepts. One of the main rules: police officers are not killed for their work. You don't have to take everything literally. “Remove” meant evicting them from Rostov and sending them to another region. Maybe to a resort. To Montenegro there...
- Wouldn’t it be easier to come to an agreement with the police themselves?
- You probably think that you come to the region and immediately: where are the cops, how much money should you give? No, this is clumsy, issues cannot be resolved this way. Sometimes it really is easier to negotiate with the police if they are open to communication. But there is always a big risk here, because the police are on their own. You seem to come to an agreement, and then - once, and the person either backed down on his own, or he was “accepted”. So it can be easier to arrange something like this. I like to develop different combinations. I love my job as much as you do.
It wasn’t just that I got ready and went to Rostov. I knew what I would say and to whom. When I Bessonova saw on the Internet how he and his brother at a rally were tearing off the policemen’s shoulder straps and knocking off their caps, I immediately realized: with this person we can resolve issues. His words about the fact that he would buy everyone and go to Moscow after we help him become mayor, of course, made me laugh. But he is attractive with his simplicity, one might even say, charisma. It’s a pity that this happened... He then sat in front of the television cameras, sweating, making excuses for our conversation with him. But in general he is “in the know.” Does your mother know who runs the common fund in Moscow? And he knows about his Rostov.
- What does the money from the common fund go to?
- For different purposes. Including necessarily to support those who end up behind bars. But this rarely happens to serious people these days. So the main financial wheels are spinning, of course, in freedom.
- How much is the common fund now valued at? Who has access to it?
- I must warn you that those who find out about this will not live long. Do you still want to?
- No, perhaps. But this is all strange.
- I actually have nothing to do with the common fund, I don’t hold it. There are special people. This is someone else's money, and it is indecent to count someone else's money. I can say that even I don’t know which tranches come from where, by whom and how they are calculated.
- After the release of the video and audio recordings, were you summoned for questioning?
- “Why on earth?” - my lawyers would ask. If you listen to the recording again, you will not find anything there that would be suitable for trial.
- Do new technologies somehow affect criminal processes?
- The counter began to tick more actively. People live well, and it is now easier and faster to withdraw big money from a person. As for the rest, everything is more flexible now - it depends on who is betting who. There is no classic gangster 23% that was calculated in the 90s. For me, roughly speaking, it’s like this: today I had 3 thousand in debt, tomorrow it’s already 4. It’s tough. Not because I’m so greedy, I just have a status, I can’t do it any other way.
And about the technology... Now a person is not only penetrated through databases - after all, there is dry information there. What's happened social media, we know perfectly well. If we continue about Rostov, I very quickly learned that Bessonov has three children. Who are his son and daughter's friends? Agree, it’s not superfluous information if you want to put pressure on a person. By the way, you won’t find me on any social network. I have all the schemes, names and phone numbers in my head, and there is not a single electronic medium where at least some information of value would be stored. Parents and Slava taught that you must behave in such a way that no one could fully understand who you are. IN kindergarten everyone thinks I'm a photographer. I come and photograph children's matinees. I love it.
- Are there any rules for people in your circle?
- Now, unfortunately, there are fewer and fewer people with classical concepts. But I treat traditions with reverence and will raise my children with the right attitude towards life. I had many good examples before my eyes - my parents, Slava first of all.
"The Glory Killer is punished"
- Did you and Ivankov really love each other?
- Why these questions? After all, the people who care about this are alive and well. You loved your first love in a special way, and you left a part of your heart there. I miss Glory. I think he would be proud of me. But he sees everything and so, I believe in it.
- What do you think he would tell you?
- He would say that we have a very cool son growing up. How he dreamed - a typical Russian boy: blonde hair, blue eyes...
- Does Zhora know who his dad is?
“I can hardly imagine explaining such things to a four-year-old child.” So this question is not relevant for me for another 10 years. To be honest, I don’t want to say banal things, but Zhorik now has a father. So we will assume that I have answered your question.
- Was Ivankov a romantic?
- He didn’t take me by the hand to a restaurant, didn’t give me flowers every day. But he gave me a lot of attention and time. He never swore or used rude language in front of me. The most memorable gifts were the ring and the car I wanted then - a Honda.
- When he was wounded, were you with him in the hospital?
- No. There was a woman with him in the hospital for whom I have great respect. She was with Slava for many years, and believe me, these were not the easiest years.
- Did you know from the very beginning who the killer was?
- I’ll say one thing: the murderer has already been punished.
- Ivankov believed that women should not exist in the criminal world?
- Against. With Slava there was Kalya Nikiforova - Kalina. There was even talk that her son Vitya Kalina was Ivankov’s child. This is wrong. So, Kalya wasn’t even right hand Glory, but an equal partner. There were legends about her. She had, oddly enough, an approach to Caucasians who historically despise women and consider doing business with them beneath their dignity. She had a magical effect on them. They hung on her every word.
- How did she do it?
- The devil knows. (Laughs.)
- Are there any women known in criminal circles in Moscow now?
- There is some queen of punks with a vulgar nickname, but I don’t even remember what. (According to some reports, her name is Baby. - E.M.). There are very serious woman, talking about her is more expensive for yourself. I’ll say it banally, but everything depends on the person, not on the gender.
- Did the Jap leave you a lot of money?
- Personally, nothing for me. I wouldn't take it. He left it to his son, but he will receive it only after he comes of age. I don’t know how much, but I myself will earn no less.
- You have a lizard tattoo on your arm. What does this mean?
- If you are looking for a connection with crime, then it is not here. Unfortunately, I can’t afford to wear thieves’ stars yet, but I will do everything to earn this right. Actually, I have several tattoos. And those that mean something, you can easily make for yourself.
- But people from the criminal world might come up and say: are you responsible for them?
- What kind of people are from the criminal world? Who do you even mean? Any punks who quit a month ago? Serious people will never come up and ask.
- Would you like your children to do what you do?
- I want them to be doctors. Surgeons.

Eva Merkacheva is a columnist for MK, winner of the Iskra, Golden Pen of Russia awards, the Russian Government Prize and other awards. Deputy Chairman of the Public Supervisory Council of Moscow, member of the Public Council of the Federal Penitentiary Service of Russia, member of the Human Rights Council under the President of the Russian Federation.

- You recently returned from Poland, you were part of the Russian delegation at events dedicated to the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. Can a word resist absolute evil, what was Auschwitz like?

We must name evil and show it. In general, my first feeling in Auschwitz was: there is no need to come here, so as not to create even thought forms of this horror. Then I realized: just a trip to Auschwitz is an inoculation against the repetition of horror. Vaccination against Nazism, racism, the very possibility of considering someone’s life and thought more valuable than all others. Tons of children's shoes. Women's hair. Twelve carriages of baby carriages. The Nazis were meticulous; they put every shoe, every little thing into production. And every human body. Even the ashes from the ovens were used to fertilize the soil. I asked: maybe, since there are no tortured people left, it would be better to bury at least the hair of the dead women? They answered me: if they don’t exist, these tons of hair, people won’t believe it. Of course it is. We need to be reminded of the terrible thing, we need to talk about it more. So that it never happens again.

- The tragedies of the past are an uncomfortable topic, not everyone is always ready to remember. In the mid-1990s, many said: enough about the sad past, about the Gulag, Stalin, collectivization, everything has already been said. And gradually they stopped telling. And soon, at the site of mass executions, someone wanted to erect a monument to the “effective manager” Joseph Vissarionovich...

We have very few places where you can find out about this. It turns out that we seem to want to erase this topic from our memory. Is it dangerous. Although I still would not compare Auschwitz and the Gulag.

- Every week there are reports of torture in places of pre-trial detention, in colonies, and in police stations. What's the matter? Is it possible to resist this?

I saw these people. I was in the colony where Makarov was tortured, this is one of the most high-profile cases of torture. The guards are people, as a rule, from nearby villages and towns, lack of education, salary 15-17 thousand rubles. All life in such villages revolves around places of detention. In Mordovia there is a village about 18 kilometers long - and there are 20 colonies. If you meet someone, it’s either a man in uniform, or a relative who has come to visit someone... And on TV they show a beautiful life.

All employees dream of moving to Moscow or at least sending their children there. When a person like Makarov comes to them and starts to download his license, the first thing that comes to their mind is to simply beat him up. They don’t think at all about what might happen after this, what the press will say, how Russia will look in the eyes of the international community. In fact, this is a lack of respect not only for a person, it is disrespect for one’s profession. And, unfortunately, it manifests itself not only among jailers.

It’s the same for investigators and prosecutors. It used to be honorable and important to wear shoulder straps, I heard a lot about it, met with investigators, with prosecutors who worked back in Soviet time. They had pride in their work, serving the law and country. It is clear that there were contract cases, pressure from superiors, and there was corruption - probably less than now, but it was there. But they respected themselves and their profession. Now this is not the case. The investigator may not remember the name of the person under investigation. He writes a petition to extend the arrest - and on two pieces of paper he incorrectly indicates the name of the detainee four times! The name of the court is incorrect. But he decides the fate of a person! But he has other priorities: to earn more, to live beautifully... The production of affairs has been put on stream. Such an investigator does not care about the fate of a person. This is scary.

- You said that at school you dreamed of becoming either an investigator or a journalist.

Yes, I even entered the Institute of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in Voronezh and at the same time the Faculty of Journalism of Moscow State University, where I eventually entered. Journalism is also about justice. At school I read Gilyarovsky a lot, I was simply crazy about him. I remember the phrase: a journalist is not the one who writes well, but the one who thinks well.

A JOURNALIST IS A HUMAN RIGHTS DEFENDER IN ESSENCE. EVEN IF YOU WRITE ABOUT MUSIC, THEATER, STILL, SOONER OR LATER YOU WILL BE ABLE TO PROTECT SOMEONE, HELP SOMEONE. THIS IS THE NATURE OF THE PROFESSION

My literature teacher Evgenia Dolgikh brought me to the newspaper. She ran the column “Politics through the eyes of a cook” in “Bryansky Rabochiy”, which was very popular and relevant, she wrote sharply and even sarcastically on the topic of the day, about everything. Just fire! And she was very kind person. She once brought me to the newspaper and said: “We must.” I wrote the first note on assignment, about the last bell at our school. And then, without any assignment, a big letter of gratitude to my “godmother” and my beloved teacher, who managed to explain to us all the most important things in literature lessons - about human dignity, freedom, personal choice... No one talked to us about this then , my parents had no time for it... After the publication, many teachers were offended why I didn’t say anything about them, maybe because of this, in the end I didn’t receive a gold medal. But she already graduated from the journalism department of Moscow State University with honors! And with a medal.

-Does a journalist need specialized education today?

Of course, you can work without a diploma. But still, if there is an opportunity to get a journalistic education, of course, you need to do it. We were lucky: the faculty had amazing teachers, enthusiastic, bright people who themselves knew how to captivate. Great gratitude to them! Stacks of books taller than me, which had to be carried home from the library in several visits... During the session, we usually retold what we had read to each other, not everyone had time to master the entire list. This reading is an accumulation of images and meanings, it remains in you, you never know when it will “shoot”.

- How did you get into “MK”?

According to the advertisement. I read that correspondents are required. I called. It must have been a pretty stupid call. But I was invited. She took with her a medal and a diploma with honors; the editor didn’t even look at it. There was a lot of noise and clamor in the editorial office, and someone even threw a telephone at someone else. They handed me a thick directory of scientific organizations and said: call, find something interesting and write. It seemed almost humiliating. By that time, I had already published several investigative articles in Bryansk Worker. But you have to try everything! I started calling, and pretty soon I attacked a scientist who was studying the world of underground Moscow. The result was great material, and it was put on the board of the best. That's how it all started.

-Is the path to the editorial office “from the street” still open today? Many students don't believe this.

Almost everyone who works at MK today came straight from the street.

- What does editorial office mean to you? Place of work? House? Springboard?

I have been working at MK for almost half of my adult life. Over the years, the most different offers, including very interesting ones both in terms of money and in terms of perspective, not only journalistic. But MK is the place where you can be yourself. You will be accepted for who you are, for who you want to be. I remember at the planning meeting, when we, the new journalists, were being introduced, a literary dispute arose, the masters clashed, Minkin, Raikina... A dispute between the greats! Then the young journalists who came with me spoke up and entered into a discussion with the editor-in-chief. As equals. And the editor-in-chief responded to them very emotionally, also as equals. This is what MK is. In general, I have never had a case where my material was removed because someone didn’t like it. If they criticize, it means there are objective reasons. If the production editor does not want to publish your material, then he gives it to other editors, they can offer to correct something. There is always an opportunity to hear advice from experienced colleagues, and your material will ultimately become better.

- Team?

Yes. And an important principle is respect for your opinion. There was a case when one very famous journalist and I disagreed on our assessment of a crime story. Each stood her ground. As a result, two materials and two points of view appeared in the newspaper.

-Have you encountered censorship? Chief Editor did you wrap the material?

- Not even once?

Once asked to postpone the material about Investigative Committee. I didn’t wrap it up, I just asked for it to be postponed. I agreed. Then even more poignant stories appeared. And the material simply became irrelevant.

-Was it offensive?

No. The newspaper is a school. One of the important discoveries of all these years is that you understand that within one editorial office you can not only grow professionally, but also expand the scope of your interests. This is how human rights came into my life.

-Are you a favorite in the editorial office?

Not at all. For a long time I thought that I was not valued at all. I didn’t participate in editorial gatherings, I was always in a hurry to leave after work, I did yoga, I thought that was the problem. And suddenly they were chosen as journalist of the year! And then they chose two more times. Three times the best is a MK record! Of all the awards that I have had, this is the most expensive. Recognition from colleagues who know everything about you, know how you suffered, rewrote, how you got it from the editor, how the editor got it from someone for your material...

- How did you end up in prison for the first time?

A journalist who wrote about prisons fell ill. And I went to “Matrosskaya Tishina” instead. This was probably not just a coincidence. I immediately, from the first minute, understood some very important things. About fear. After the fear of death, the greatest fear is to be in captivity. About freedom. In fact, a person in prison can be no less free internally than one who is free. Everything depends on the perception of the world.

I started doing yoga while still at university; the topic of inner freedom interested me very much. I felt the fear of people who found themselves in this position. They are rushing around, they are panicking. For a long time they do not see anyone except the prosecutor and the investigator, and new person, who walks into the camera, is a big deal. The door opens and someone new appears, out of shape, smiling, looking more or less decent. I never accepted the advice that you should come to prison exclusively in gray, almost in a quilted jacket. I always come with painted lips. The warden once reprimanded me and said that I shouldn’t come into the cell in heels. I replied that I would walk as I saw fit. So, a man comes in and says in an ordinary voice: guys, everything doesn’t last forever, you’ll come out soon and sort out your business. Your soul probably needed this for some reason. Of course, communicating with senior human rights activist colleagues helped me a lot. Babushkin - with such humor he asked the most simple questions that the atmosphere in the chamber changed completely in a few minutes. And it was also important for me to write about this.

FOR ME, IT IS NOT THE FAME OF THE HERO OR EVEN THE BUSINESS ITSELF THAT IS IMPORTANT. I'M INTERESTED IN HOW PEOPLE BEHAVIOR IN THE CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES, HOW THE SYSTEM PROVES ITSELF

But over time, I realized that the most important thing for me is not how well the material is written. Not even how the material was rated by colleagues. The most important thing is if you managed to do something. Achieve a review of the case and improve conditions of detention.

-A journalist is essentially a human rights activist?

Who else? Even if you write about music or theater, sooner or later you will still be able to protect someone, help someone. This is the nature of the profession.

- What do you consider your main success as a human rights activist?

Changing the practice of pre-trial arrests. I think this is generally an unnecessary measure. I talked about this all the time.

She spoke at the council of judges. Now we don’t put women and children behind bars until a court decision. Was able to influence the living conditions of women. I remember when I first came to the sixth pre-trial detention center, the isolation ward was overcrowded, people slept on mattresses and on the floor. I sat down on a bench, writing down complaints and noticed that something was moving under my feet. I look under the bench, and there are women sleeping. A real female hell. That’s what she called the article: “Women’s Hell.” A couple of days after the publication, the heads of the Federal Penitentiary Service arrived at the pre-trial detention center. They immediately began to take action. Now no one sleeps on the floor there.

But things can change quite quickly. If now everything is fine, clean, no hits, this does not mean that in two weeks everything cannot be completely different. All hell might break out again, and they won’t let you in for a date or a shower. We need to monitor the situation all the time. The system needs constant monitoring by society. As for successes, they are different, sometimes completely unnoticeable. Sometimes my heroes do not gain freedom after publication. But they express gratitude for being heard and for being allowed to express their opinion.

- The most important capital of an investigative journalist is like-minded people from the security forces, like Shchekochikhin’s Alexander Gurov or Konstantinov’s former criminals - idealists who dream of improving the system. Do you have these?

Certainly. True, most often these are those whom the system has disadvantaged in one way or another. Those who are “on horseback” usually do not look around.
- Are they trying to put pressure on you? - Actually never. There were times when our intelligence services did not want certain specific names and characters to appear in the material. I answered and always answer in such cases: it means that you are not doing well with the evidence, with the understanding that you did everything right.

- Is this about the murder of Nemtsov?

Yes, then the detainees talked about torture, and it was important to write about it.

- You wrote about “Matrosskaya Tishina”, “Butyrka”, “Kresty”, Vladimir Central, colonies for life prisoners “Polar Owl”, “Vologda Pyatak” and many others. Have you ever been to a prison abroad?

Yes. In Norway, Sweden. In a Swedish prison I saw how teams of employees competed with teams
prisoners played tennis and chess. We played together in the orchestra - the warden on the trumpet, the prisoners on the violin... Until recently, we had nothing like this. I am glad that I was able to introduce yoga classes in Moscow pre-trial detention centers. Mixed groups of prisoners and staff are now training with a trainer in Butyrskaya prison and detention center No. 6.

- Among your heroes are famous and ordinary people. How do you choose a topic? Hero?

What is important for me is not the fame of the hero or even the matter itself, I am interested in how human characters manifest themselves, how people behave in the current circumstances, how the system manifests itself. One of the recent cases is about the theft of parachutes from a GRU school. They blamed cadets, almost ready-made intelligence officers, the sons of experienced pear troopers. The parents of the cadets (they turned to me) were shocked that the system did not make the most of the presumption of innocence, which is standardly aimed at, albeit conditionally, an accusation. And I was amazed by the mutual assistance of the cadets; they, in fact, emerged victorious. More often, it happens differently: people who wore shoulder straps, once behind bars, not only “turn in” their own, but sometimes even invent something that did not happen, in order to reduce the sentence and reclassify the cases.

-An investigation, an essay about life in a colony for those serving life sentences are serious genres that require special care and delicacy. Doesn’t it bother you that on a TV show where you are invited, human drama turns into a cheap farce, and your position is not shared by the crowd? After all, this is exactly what happened in the program about the fate of a woman who married a man convicted for life?

It’s very unpleasant to see how dirty your seemingly colleagues work. But you still need to try to convey your position.

- You are an active Facebook user. Telegram and other instant messengers - more of a support or a burden?

Of course, support. On Telegram, I mostly get information from my trusted sources. We all have informants, they are afraid of wiretaps, they believe that Telegram will best protect them. As for Facebook, this is not only an opportunity to promote your publication, but also a chance to find new heroes. Sometimes absolutely fantastic stories arise! I don't think a journalist should avoid Facebook. It is still important to have your own personal space. But in in this case I speak not as a representative of a corporation, a member of committees, unions, but as a common person. Besides, you never know who and how you can help through social networks. There was a case: shortly after the annexation of Crimea, I wrote a post about a Ukrainian sailor who was accused of either treason or espionage, but he did not understand anything at all. I saw him in his cell, without socks, without pants (there were no clothes in the warehouse at that moment). She called out online and gave the arrestee’s account number so that they could collect money for cigarettes, toilet paper, and clothes. Then my colleagues advised me to delete the post. Deleted. But they had already collected enough funds, and when he was finally released into almost nowhere, literally naked, he was able to buy clothes and a ticket to his homeland. Then someone conveyed his gratitude.

-Do you feel safe?

You cannot feel absolutely safe in our country. Especially if you are a public person. You can be pranked at any moment, if it is in someone’s interests, just for once or twice. Suddenly, after the visit of some visitor, you may find a wad of money or something else. We must understand that this can happen. The only protection is a good name.
- What besides yoga helps to overcome disappointment, stress, failures? - The very opportunity to write, tell stories, look for the right accents. An opportunity to help someone. If it works out, it's happiness. Maybe someone will read your material and think about it, this is also a great success.

- Is your family supportive?

Not really. The son says: you spend more time with prisoners than with me. I hope someday he will understand me.

-Today there are many women among investigators. Do you agree that women bring a special intonation to the profession?

The fearless Zoya Svetova and Lena Masyuk worked with me in the POC. They were not afraid of anything at all, they could not calmly see suffering, injustice and misfortune. Men would look more closely in their place, they would think more whether human rights activities would harm their careers, whether they would be imprisoned... It seems to me that now in general the energy of space in the world is changing, new approaches, new discourses are becoming in demand, and women feel this more acutely . Many men worry most about how to sit in their chairs, earn more money, enjoy the moment of glory and power. This desire to receive immediate pleasure from everything has generally ruined a lot in life.

-Many journalism students dream of saving the world, of doing something heroic. What advice do you have for them?

You have to do what you want. If you want to write only about music, you don’t have to rush into the embrasure. Maybe in ten years you will write a text that will change the entire musical world. Listen to your heart, do nothing out of obligation, through force. Fate itself will lead you to those texts and those stories that you will have to write.

-You recently said that it would be nice to come up with a prize for journalists different countries, one that could unite colleagues writing in different languages.

Yes, I first thought about this when I came to America under a professional exchange program in 2012, as part of the “reset.” We met with colleagues, went to editorial offices, then the Americans came to us, and I was surprised that we did not know each other’s names and texts at all. They didn’t know who published the famous investigations that the whole country read. I think this is wrong. It would be nice to create an award that would unite the best journalists in the world. As a result, the best texts of journalists will be freely available; they can be transferred to universities and editorial offices. This is such a super task. But what if it works?

PHOTO: twitter.com/echomskru; centrsud.com/ Eva Merkacheva; 113rus.ru; radio_mohovaya9.tilda.ws/ Vera Saprykina; Eva Merkacheva

This article is about the bright journalist of the Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper, deputy chairman of the public monitoring commission, Eva Merkacheva. She is known to many readers from materials covering situations in Russian prisons and pre-trial detention centers. The materials she publishes are always motivated by humanistic principles. They contribute to the formation of civil society.

Eva is a member of the Union of Journalists of Moscow and Russia, and is a laureate of the Iskra national journalistic award. She also takes part in commissions to develop laws that make life easier for prisoners while serving their sentences.

Eva Merkacheva: biography of a man in a dangerous profession

It is impossible to find detailed information about it in open sources. And this is understandable. This fragile but brave woman is engaged in difficult anti-corruption work in the field of justice and serving sentences. Her articles and materials are always targeted, and their civic position is clearly visible. Often, following her journalistic duty, she covers facts that are very unfavorable to influential politicians. In view of the above, Eva Merkacheva does not advertise private information about herself and her family.

However, as a public person, she periodically talks about her views on life, without being tied to dates and persons. Thus, from interviews it is known that at school Eva was interested in physics and mathematics, and participated in olympiads. An excellent student, in her senior year she decided to become either a journalist or an investigator.

She liked the spirit of investigation. Therefore, after school, she entered 2 universities at once: Moscow State University (journalism department) and the Institute of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in Voronezh. However, the desire to work in Moscow still won, and the girl took up journalism.

It is also known from open sources that Eva Merkacheva is married and has a son who is interested in playing the guitar.

Judging by the rather clean performance of asanas (in one of the Internet videos), she has been practicing yoga since childhood, using it to maintain her energy and performance.

That's probably all that you can find out personally about her on the Internet.

Beginning of work

After graduating from Moscow State University, Eva took up journalism, and only then her profession pushed her to human rights work in prisons.

At the beginning of her journalistic career, the girl became interested in the bright and top topic of investigating the most resonant crimes over the past 10-15 years. But then Eva Merkacheva, who has systems thinking, became interested social aspect prison life, riots occurring at this time in the colonies. Studying the investigation materials, the girl realized: for the most part, prisoners rebel because of non-compliance with their completely legal rights.

At this stage, the doors of the penitentiary system were still closed to the journalist. However, Merkacheva did not despair; professionalism demanded of her - she needed to reach a new level. As a result, in her own words, Eva managed to “make her way” to the public monitoring commission.

Work in the POC. Why there?

The activist quite consciously chose her field of activity - the penitentiary system. Closed and secret in the USSR, it had to open up to control by society. In 1984, Russia, as a member of the UN, ratified the Convention against Torture. 30 years later, on July 21, 2014, it was adopted the federal law“On the fundamentals of public control in the Russian Federation”, which determines the control status of the PMC.

The statutory mandate allowed members of this commission to freely enter any premises of any correctional facility at any time.

This had a positive impact on the rule of law in the penitentiary system. Human rights activists in a short time managed to stop the organization of so-called press huts in Moscow prisons - premises where a person was played with psychological games, humiliated, treated in various ways, called and put pressure on loved ones, forcing them to pay to stop the abuse.

The PMC helped, first of all, those illegally isolated in pre-trial detention centers. According to Eva, Svetlana Davydova, a mother of many children (8 or 9 children), was subjected to influence, including from unscrupulous judicial protection. The POC found her a lawyer, thanks to which it became clear that the woman had absolutely no corpus delicti.

Mandate of the PMC

Thanks to the status of a member of the PMC, Merkacheva received the opportunity to engage in human rights activities directly in places of forced detention of citizens: pre-trial detention centers, colonies, prisons, correctional centers, temporary detention centers, special detention centers. At the same time, Eva was surprised to note that, unlike her colleagues, she did not have a feeling of moral depression after visiting places of detention.

She, trying to help the prisoners with their understandable, legitimate human requests, felt like a ray of light, trying to convey to the prisoners hope and faith in the best.

Work is inseparable from personal life

Eva Merkacheva does not separate her life and work at all. She manages to organically combine her journalistic work in the Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper with her activities in the Public Monitoring Committee. The Moskovsky Komsomolets employee does not have a stable hourly work schedule; she can write at any time. A woman and her colleagues promptly go to a pre-trial detention center or prison, whether during the day or at night, if something happens there.

As a human rights activist, she is respected by prisoners. They know that the journalist will ignore frivolous, far-fetched requests, but will show integrity when their real rights are violated.

In her work, Eva Merkacheva works closely with her POC colleague, journalist, columnist for New Times magazine and human rights activist, Zoya Feliksovna Svetova, widely known for her documentary novel “Find the Innocent Guilty.”

Merkachev on decriminalization

Merkacheva calls an important innovation in legal practice the new decriminalizing law, which transfers some articles of the Criminal Code (in the case of one-time actions of the accused) to the category of administrative violations. People who have broken the law have the opportunity to remain within the framework of normal civil life and not receive a criminal record. Thanks to the law, about 300,000 people will receive this chance every year.

However, the journalist calls it only the first step in a long journey of decriminalization of society. She considers it important in the near future to systematically review the article of the existing Criminal Code.

The following legal requirements were also positive:

  • obliging penitentiary system employees to video record the use of special equipment;
  • prohibiting the use of stun guns and water cannons on prisoners at low temperatures.

Innate sense of justice

The human rights activist helps fellow citizens understand the need to reform the current penitentiary system. When an innocent person is placed in prison, he finds himself in a very special environment where psychological changes are possible under pressure. The investigation is pressuring him to admit his guilt. He is being pushed into this fatal mistake. If he takes the blame upon himself, an uncompromising mechanism for applying criminal punishment is launched against him. In this case, by and large, the whole society suffers: criminals go unpunished, the person himself and his loved ones lose faith in justice, people’s destinies are destroyed, and the entire system of observance of the law is deformed.

Eva Merkacheva is an operational journalist; she reacts sharply and immediately to cases where lawyers abuse the innocent, posting her reviews on social networks.

This was the case with a 65-year-old game warden from Tuva, who was beaten half to death by poachers - an employee of the Ministry of Emergency Situations and an ex-policeman - while performing his official duties and left for dead. Game management professionals in the country are well aware of this decent man and a high specialist in his field with 40 years of experience. It is noteworthy that shortly after the incident, which occurred on the night of February 15, 2014, photographs of the beaten man mysteriously disappeared. At the trial, the villains accused the huntsman of slander, and the judge imposed a considerable fine on him.

Journalist about torture in pre-trial detention center

Merkacheva Eva Mikhailovna considers her work extremely important for society. Before the publication of her materials, many Muscovites knew nothing about the Moscow pre-trial detention center-6, where law enforcement officers are too eager to place women suspected of committing crimes.

The journalist opened the eyes of millions of fellow citizens to the arbitrariness taking place in the pre-trial detention center. Overcrowding is 80%; there is no free space in the cells. Women sleep on thin mattresses anywhere. Prisoners there are practically not treated. Many suffer from simple but advanced gynecological diseases and bleeding. They are afraid that they will later become infertile.

The human rights activist complains that the existing laws lack the very principles of humanism, even in relation to mothers. According to her, there are often situations when the mother is detained and the children are given to relatives. In response to requests from suspects about the condition of minors, no information is provided: “We do not provide such services.” It happens that women give birth in pre-trial detention centers and their children are taken away from them. And in this case they also feel an information blockade.

Sometimes they are specially placed in the cells of people suffering from various diseases. Situations where suspects may contract tuberculosis or syphilis break women. Out of fear for their lives, they agree to sign everything in order to escape from this hell. According to European legal standards, this practice is equivalent to torture.

According to the journalist, irreversible consequences come later, when such conditions, already in the second term of punishment, break women, turning them into aggressive, masculine, tattooed, smoking monsters, talking with a hairdryer.

The scary thing is that prison, devoid of the principles of humanism and justice, does not re-educate, does not intimidate criminals, it deprives them of their femininity, breaks their destinies, cripples their lives.

Merkachev on restricting pre-trial arrest

The journalist considers the practice of pre-trial detention of persons who have committed minor crimes, especially mothers, in pre-trial detention centers to be indiscriminate. It is inherently cruel to deprive them of the opportunity to raise their children until they are sentenced. In addition, the judge, when determining the measure of restraint, is not obliged to choose a pre-trial detention center, even if the operatives request this.

Merkacheva Eva, having studied the statistics on this issue, was quite surprised: the majority of such inhumane decisions were made by female judges. Inhumanity replicated in society by a woman - what could be worse?

Merkacheva Eva: nationality

It’s bad when in Rus' nationality is a reason to accuse a decent person of Jewish appearance. Even some readers of this article have probably seen outright libels against Eva Merkacheva on websites.

Who is bothered by this fragile woman, who courageously opposes violence and arbitrariness in places of detention? Obviously for those for whom such legality is disadvantageous. Here are two examples:

  • After one of her investigations, Eva published material that served as the basis for dozens of documentary chronicles. The facts are impressive: one Moscow criminal banker, placed in a colony, “bought” the administration. In the evenings, the guards took him to restaurants and sent him home. The insolent criminal even went to
  • The young woman does not hesitate to write the truth, even if it contradicts someone’s attitudes. A journalist, for example, may, in defiance of propagandists who idealize the Stalin era, publish material about the reprisal of a “gang of nuns” who served in Uspensky convent(Tula), calling on fellow citizens to think about humanity and dictatorship.

It is obvious that Merkachev is more afraid of corrupt officials in uniform who cultivate prison lawlessness.

Conclusion

Fortunately, Eva Mikhailovna Merkacheva, journalist, deputy chairman of the Moscow Public Monitoring Committee, is not alone in her opposition to prison injustice. Together with like-minded people, the journalist strives to ensure that criminals and defendants are not subjected to violence in isolation.

This is necessary for the health of society. After all, after serving their sentences, prisoners return, find work, and get married. Therefore, it is extremely important that they return from prison not embittered, but renounced crime.

According to the human rights activist, for this purpose, conditions must be created in places of detention that prevent the suppression of a person when, under pressure or due to deception, he takes on someone else’s guilt.

The growth of transparency in the penitentiary system, which the journalist contributes to through her work, is very important. They lay hope that society will respond and justice will prevail in places of detention.

MK journalist Eva Merkacheva entered the new line-up Human Rights Council under the President of Russia. She is known to the general public for her articles on the Russian penitentiary system, as well as for her human rights activities. After her articles, generals from the Federal Penitentiary Service of Russia resigned, and conditions of detention for people behind bars changed. She explained in an interview with a Constantinople observer what a journalist will do at the Human Rights Council.

Interview with HRC member Eva Merkacheva

The new composition of the HRC is not liberal, but professional

Tsargrad: Congratulations on your election to the HRC. Journalists are arguing about what the new composition will be - loyal to the authorities or liberal?

Eva Merkacheva: The advice looks very harmonious. There really are people there who could be classified as liberals. But for me the main thing is that there are many representatives of the creative intelligentsia there. The worst thing that can happen to a human rights activist is when he becomes “rude” or, while doing something, cannot find the right words and formulations. And representatives of t V orc professions, journalists, artists, directors can always talk about pain and tragedy in the right language in their works or messages.

MK journalist Eva Merkacheva. Alexander Shcherbak/TASS

Tell the story in such a way that it will reach the president and law enforcement officers. Because the latter’s task is to tighten the nuts as tightly as possible, while ours is to unscrew them. There will be no us, there will be too much.

"Ts.": Odious characters were removed from the old Council - Elena Masyuk, Maxim Shevchenko, Irina Khakamada, Leonid Parfenov, i.e. systemic critics of power. Quite liberal people also took their place. Is this a concession of power to the liberals or just a rotation?

EAT.: Rotation. And we must not forget that people join the HRC by their own consent. If you remember, Shevchenko himself expressed a desire to leave the Council. Others have their own story. But it’s good when rotation happens, because we need fresh blood.

This is also good because the authorities do not respond to all members of the HRC, for various reasons. Recently, there have been cases when members of the Council declared some kind of disagreement with the actions of law enforcement officers, but there was no response. It seems to me that if the majority of members of the Council say that a criminal case is illegal, a person is being persecuted for political or some other reasons, then at a minimum it is necessary that it be reviewed, and at a maximum, to immediately release the person for whom the Council stands up with its by the majority. After all, we were appointed by the president!

Human Rights Council - a functioning body or a whistle to blow off steam?

"Ts.":What do you think about the popular assertion that the HRO is a whistle to blow off steam?

EAT.: If there are still no decisions on the recommendations of the HRC, then, unfortunately, we risk turning into the Public Chamber (PC) in the form in which it exists last years. This is a completely toothless and, it seems to me, useless organ. I don’t remember that, based on the decisions of the Public Chamber, people were released from prisons, the work of landfills was stopped, and so on.

The OP didn't succeed. But the HRC can succeed. If only because it now has such a composition, such powerful people, that it can stop all these horrors.

"Ts.": Ukrainian sailors are now arrested for violating our state border. How do you assess this situation? Are they prisoners of conscience, as Ukrainian and liberal sources claim?

EAT.: Based on the situation that we know, it turns out that these sailors committed a crime against the integrity of Russian state. Therefore, it is very strange to say that they are prisoners of conscience.

Based on our laws, they are saboteurs. However, I know this professionally; Ukrainians are kept in exactly the same conditions as everyone else.

We do not have special prisons for saboteurs and spies. They are in equal conditions with everyone else, in completely ordinary cells. Moreover, they receive the same treatment as a Russian citizen would receive in a regular hospital. Crew members of Ukrainian ships are treated in the prison hospital in “Matrosskaya Tishina”; all the same standards apply to them as to ordinary prisoners.

Pavel Mamaev. Photo: Maxim Grigoriev/TASS

Russian prisons are not a place of horror and sadness

"Ts.": You write amazing articles on topics related to the prison system. Are you used to working in this environment?

EAT.: I don’t feel that a pretrial detention center or a prison is a place of grief, sadness, or horror. The most important task of a human rights activist is not to immerse yourself in this environment, but, on the contrary, to bring some kind of fresh air, a feeling of hope, that everything will be fine, that fate will be favorable to the people who ended up on the bunk.

And the second point: in fact, now there are no longer any prisons left that, as you say, smell bad. As members of the previous convocation of the Human Rights Council told me, after their visit to Butyrka their clothes smelled for two days. Now there is no such thing. I go to the pre-trial detention center in the same clothes that I then wear in the editorial office or later go to events or to the theater. Everything has changed, the prison has really changed!

Moreover, if you visit some detention centers, you will be in a slight shock, it is so fresh, clean, the prisoners have set meals on their tables, which they can order from outside - barbecue, some sausages and whatever you want.

Today, 99% of Moscow pre-trial detention centers have a TV and refrigerator in each cell. It is important. A person is not cut off from what is happening in the world. Each isolation center, except Lefortovo, has a gym. Some have gyms in every building, which is very cool.

There are hairdressers, and in the Moscow women's detention center you can have eyebrow correction, manicure, pedicure, and hair dyeing. So that the woman can come to the trial looking normal. She could go out on a date with her husband in a good mood precisely because she had appearance corresponding.

Kokorin and Mamaev were imprisoned by society

"Ts.": Is the case of Kokorin and Mamaev ordinary, or should it be treated differently?

EAT.: This is, of course, an extraordinary thing. It stands out from all the cases that we hear about. If only because they usually don’t go to jail for the charges they currently have.

Initially, the trial of football players Kokorin and Mamaev became a show. As they say, for the benefit of society. The society demanded blood, demanded revenge for the fact that they publicly used violence against three citizens. As if it concerned him himself.

"Ts.":And did you get it?

EAT.: And it did. Another thing is that now everything is unfolding in reverse side. Society is already starting to say: enough is enough, we probably sat there long enough, the guys seemed to be not bad. More and more information is coming that Alexander and Pavel were involved in charity work, helping someone, positive stories from their lives. All that blackness that accompanied their image began to slowly go away, more and more football clubs are ready to accept them, more and more deputies are beginning to call for a stop to poisoning football players.

It turns out that if society wants, it will quickly put anyone behind bars. And at the same time, if it relents, then those who stumbled may find themselves free.

Maybe this is true, what is a state? It is created for people. Remember, in ancient states there was a people's court. As the people decided, so it was. If he wanted to execute, he was executed, but at any moment he could relent and have mercy. I don't think we're going back to those ancient times. The law must be the same for everyone, and yet one must be guided by the letter of the law.

Photo: Ergin Mikhail / Shutterstock.com

Fiery Island - a unique place

"Ts.": You wrote about the so-called “Vologda nickel” on Ognenny Island - a prison located in an ancient Russian Orthodox monastery in the Vologda region. Don’t you think that this building should be a monastery with monks, and not a prison for those sentenced to life imprisonment?

EAT.: We need to think about this idea, because now this is a unique story, in which in one place, on the one hand, there are prisoners, on the other, the history of Orthodoxy. Now restoration work is underway and they are trying to put in order what would indicate an ancient monastery.

But the way of life itself, the very atmosphere on Fire Island is unique. The prisoners will be transferred from there to a regular prison, and everything that is happening now in the former monastery will not happen to them. I have been to other colonies for lifers, but this is a unique place, and the prisoners there are different, completely special. They really go through some...

"Ts.":Cleansing?

EAT.: Yes, cleansing. They change. I didn’t even see such terrible villains, criminals. There, many convicts committed one or two murders, but these murders, so to speak, had some kind of explanation.

Let me give you the example of one businessman who received a life sentence for shooting an investigator while on duty. He burst into the house, and the businessman shot because he thought that bandits were rushing towards him. The investigator was not an easy one, so the sentence was life imprisonment. And there are several such stories.

By the way, there is a very interesting character there, about whom I once heard from the head of pre-trial detention center 99/1. Killer Orekhovskaya bandit group. In the 90s, he killed while on the payroll of a gang. All of his victims are people from the world of crime, or businessmen, one way or another connected with crime.

There are indeed a lot of corpses on it, but he repented under the weight of sins and memories. He works from morning to evening. He prays from morning to evening. He talks about his strange dreams. It seemed to him at some point that all those he killed were monks who were going to obedience.

There are things that cannot be faked, they are not for the sake of words. And when I talked with the head of the colony, he said: indeed, this man has repented. I think it all has to do with the monastery. With a prayerful and spiritually pure place.

Although, of course, I, for example, would like it to be a monastery where access would be open to all people. So that people can touch those things that were touched by the hands of holy people.